Author Topic: Dromos verification  (Read 2077 times)

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Offline yarnos

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« on: June 24, 2015, 01:15:17 AM »
Hi,
Just wanted to confirm if these notes are for Scale Do Hiziskia
DO,RE#,MI,FA,SOL,LA#,CI,DO




Offline SOLO

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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2015, 03:08:48 AM »
No
όχι

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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2015, 03:44:28 AM »
Hi,
Just wanted to confirm if these notes are for Scale Do Hiziskia
DO,RE#,MI,FA,SOL,LA#,CI,DO






You mean DO hitzaz? Or perhaps Do Hitzazskiar?

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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2015, 12:59:34 PM »
neither, nor

Offline MPEKAS

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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2015, 02:37:50 PM »


DO RE# FA SOL LA# DO   This is pentatonic scale
now with MI and SI it becomes a Blues Scale, I think,
but I wouldn't bet on it  :huh: :huh:   

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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2015, 09:50:54 PM »
I mean the  Do Hitzazskiar? scale which i also believe this develops the 3 finger lift with the index resting.....
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 10:21:08 PM by yarnos »

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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2015, 01:56:28 AM »
The Do Hitzazskiar scale is


DO,REb,MI,FA,SOL,LAb,SI,DO

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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2015, 08:27:36 AM »
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Offline SOLO

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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2015, 10:34:18 AM »
The Do Hitzazskiar scale is


DO,REb,MI,FA,SOL,LAb,SI,DO

right

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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2015, 01:30:54 PM »
Hitzazkiar
C - Db - E - F - G - Ab - B - C


Up to the G, your playing Hitzaz.  By flattening the A, you make it Hitzazkiar.
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Offline SOLO

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« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2015, 01:38:44 AM »
right
Hitzaskiar are 2 Hitzaz

Offline billy51100

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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 01:31:45 AM »
Yes, makams, as far as I know, are built one over another one. Hicazkar is hicaz for the begining of the scale, and from the 5th (G if we are in C), play hicaz again.

Offline Eleftarios

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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 07:45:57 PM »

DO RE# FA SOL LA# DO   This is pentatonic scale
now with MI and SI it becomes a Blues Scale, I think,
but I wouldn't bet on it  :huh: :huh:   
Close but not quite right! La# should be Si flat. Maybe a fine point (A# = Bb on any piano) except within the maqam philosophy there would be a profound difference.

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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 07:56:29 PM »
And it's kinda pentatonic (=5 notes -- thank you greeks). But some pedagogues argue that the blues scale is actually an equidistant division of an octave into 6 parts, brought to the americas by African slaves, and which is unplayable on the the brass and woodwind instruments of European tradition that they used to create blues and jazz. So we have what we have mashed into the equal tempered octave. Interesting to think upon.

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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 08:22:26 PM »
The Byzantine Greek and Greek folk music system of modes (dromi) is based on tetrachords (4 note scale) with two tetrachords (lower and upper) making a full mode or scale (8 notes).
Some songs, of course, may use fewer than 8 notes, and sometimes in some tunes there are exceptions to the patterns.
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Offline SOLO

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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2017, 01:28:08 PM »
octave into 6 parts by Africans is like
C D E F# G# A# C
whay not playable? Unusuall to us yes, but unblayable not
 

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« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2017, 06:48:37 PM »
And it's kinda pentatonic (=5 notes -- thank you greeks). But some pedagogues argue that the blues scale is actually an equidistant division of an octave into 6 parts, brought to the americas by African slaves, and which is unplayable on the the brass and woodwind instruments of European tradition that they used to create blues and jazz. So we have what we have mashed into the equal tempered octave. Interesting to think upon.

Solo is quite right in saying that an equal division of the octave into six parts is quite playable, though I would say also quite unuseable because it offers no center to base one's concept of tonic on.

The blues scale as you taught it to us (and most everyone else pretty much agrees on, too) is six parts, but decidedly NOT equadistant. I would be more inclined to accept the idea that the original intervals did not fit the equal half step system in which most of our instruments are made and had to be mashed, not unlike Turkish, Greek, etc. (just as you expressed it but omitting the "equadistant" part)

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« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2017, 08:19:51 PM »
Answering both of the above as best I can.


Solo, what you spelled out is called a whole tone scale, at least by adherents of of an equal division of an octave. But many musical systems use different divisions, based on how the overtones spell out acoustically. This, as I see it, is the real distinction between east and west. The west settled grudgingly on an equal tempered system of notation around the time of J S Bach for the simple reason of convenience in playing music in different keys. The east, by and large, chose to use a more mathematically and acoustically correct division of the octave and had to accommodate smaller fractions in order to make things work. For my ears, this is more "in tune" most of the time. Wind and string players, even in an orchestra playing Beethoven, try to play a compromise of equal/just temperament.


Which answers Arnold's comment. I made a mistake in what I said before -- not an equidistant division of an octave into 6 (which=the whole tone scale Solo mentioned). I meant  a more or less equidistant pentatonic scale, the 6th note being the next octave starting note. If you take a major pentatonic scale of c-d-e g-a-C and spread the notes out in equal division, you can hear something akin to  Arabic maqam and hindu raga. I've heard this sound quite a few times at folk music festivals when instruments like kalimba were played by village african bands. Everything is out of tune, but nonetheless in tune to a different system. Just tuned differently than we're used to.


Now to wade into more controversy: as a non-greek who plays rembetika; as a non-turk who plays many tunes from Anatolia; my main distinction between greek and turkish music of the early to mid 20th century is that greeks adopted the bouzouki (with frets, i.e. tempered tuning) and turks stayed with the unfretted instruments like saz (not tempered). Violinists and clarinetists simply adapted their way of playing, while simultaniously imitating sounds from the village world. Some amount of uncomfortable hybridization has evolved over the decades. Tsitsanis put an extra string on the bouzouki and changed greek popular music, but Sotiria still sang the notes in the cracks that a fretted instrument couldn't play.

Offline SOLO

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« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2017, 11:04:41 AM »
what means ''If spread the notes out in equal division, you can hear something akin to  Arabic maqam and hindu raga'' ??
could you give us a sound sample of ''kalimba and village african bands'', trying to understand what you try to say?

are yoy sure Tsitsanis ? did u mwan Hiotis Manolis?

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« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2017, 12:18:38 PM »
Answering both of the above as best I can.


Solo, what you spelled out is called a whole tone scale, at least by adherents of of an equal division of an octave. But many musical systems use different divisions, based on how the overtones spell out acoustically. This, as I see it, is the real distinction between east and west. The west settled grudgingly on an equal tempered system of notation around the time of J S Bach for the simple reason of convenience in playing music in different keys. The east, by and large, chose to use a more mathematically and acoustically correct division of the octave and had to accommodate smaller fractions in order to make things work. For my ears, this is more "in tune" most of the time. Wind and string players, even in an orchestra playing Beethoven, try to play a compromise of equal/just temperament.


Which answers Arnold's comment. I made a mistake in what I said before -- not an equidistant division of an octave into 6 (which=the whole tone scale Solo mentioned). I meant  a more or less equidistant pentatonic scale, the 6th note being the next octave starting note. If you take a major pentatonic scale of c-d-e g-a-C and spread the notes out in equal division, you can hear something akin to  Arabic maqam and hindu raga. I've heard this sound quite a few times at folk music festivals when instruments like kalimba were played by village african bands. Everything is out of tune, but nonetheless in tune to a different system. Just tuned differently than we're used to.


Now to wade into more controversy: as a non-greek who plays rembetika; as a non-turk who plays many tunes from Anatolia; my main distinction between greek and turkish music of the early to mid 20th century is that greeks adopted the bouzouki (with frets, i.e. tempered tuning) and turks stayed with the unfretted instruments like saz (not tempered). Violinists and clarinetists simply adapted their way of playing, while simultaniously imitating sounds from the village world. Some amount of uncomfortable hybridization has evolved over the decades. Tsitsanis put an extra string on the bouzouki and changed greek popular music, but Sotiria still sang the notes in the cracks that a fretted instrument couldn't play.
Actually, it was Hioti who added the fourth string and Tsismbidis added a fifth string but that never caught on.
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