Author Topic: turkish makams  (Read 6304 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kasimt

  • Visitor
  • Posts: 4
  • First Name: Kasim
  • Genre: Turkish
turkish makams
« on: July 23, 2013, 06:13:11 PM »
Greetings,

I am new to this board. I have been learning to play the ney (turkish flute) for the past year and am interested in learning more about turkish music theory, particularly makams. Any suggestions for resources?

kasim

Offline Apollonia

  • Anchor Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 577
  • Gender: Female
  • First Name: Veroníki
  • Genre: Greek
turkish makams
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2013, 06:57:03 PM »
Welcome to the GTC, Kasim!

There's a good book, called Turkish Makam Guide by Murat Aydemir. It is available in English and has recently been translated into Greek. I am unsure whether there is a Turkish original... http://www.murataydemir.com.tr/kitaplar.asp?sayfa=86

If you stay with us and contribute a little, you will be able to find that one of our members has uploaded the English digital version - you would be able to see whether you like it or not. Do you speak Turkish? Then there will be plenty of sources to choose from. If not, that's not drastic either, as there are some English materials (some translated, some written from scratch). I assume you are fluent in classical Osman notation? It's very hard to learn makamler and maqamat on fretless or fretted microtonal instruments when you cannot read notes, but definitely still possible.

Have you been to the great website called Neyzen in the past? Unfortunately it is down, but it had an amazing bilingual (Turkish/English) PDF lesson on playing ney; also very useful for kaval, which helped me a lot. I saved the files and could send them to you.

Offline kasimt

  • Visitor
  • Posts: 4
  • First Name: Kasim
  • Genre: Turkish
turkish makams
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2013, 04:22:22 AM »
Thank you for this information Apollonia.

I cannot read Turkish. Although I am currently visiting Istanbul for a few more days.  I will try to find the book you suggested by Murat Aydemir, it looks to be useful.

I can read music notes.  My teacher mostly provides me with compositions from neyzen.com, it is indeed an incredible resource.  Is what is available at neyzen.com classical Osman notation?  For now my knowledge of makams is a bit informal, as I have played pieces from different makams and am trying to get a sense of their differences.



Offline Apollonia

  • Anchor Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 577
  • Gender: Female
  • First Name: Veroníki
  • Genre: Greek
turkish makams
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 06:55:16 AM »
If I remember this correctly, the Ney/Kaval PDF I told you about focused on technique and posture firstly. It explained how to get a sound out of the damn thing, differing air streams and how you access the registers with them. And then, this is where the memory fades a bit, the fingering via diagrams. It's been too long to remember whether notation or more diagrams followed, but I will check my hard drive tonight and see if I can dig it up.

Another book on makamler in general is Makam: Modal Practice In Turkish Art Music by Karl Signell. Personally, I prefer the Aydemir book we just talked about.
I think that more resources cannot hurt and I love comparing Arabic maqamat to Turkish makamler and their nuances. They are not the same.  In case you haven't, check out

http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamindex.html
http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/makamlar.html
http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/maqamat.html

Offline kasimt

  • Visitor
  • Posts: 4
  • First Name: Kasim
  • Genre: Turkish
turkish makams
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 02:14:33 AM »
I guess I will have to wait a while to get the book by Murat as i don't have enough posts yet  :sad:

at this point i can get sounds out of the ney and play basic musical pieces, but having this guide would be a useful reference if you still have it...!

Offline Almargen

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 121
  • Gender: Male
turkish makams
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2013, 07:02:47 PM »
Greetings,

I am new to this board. I have been learning to play the ney (turkish flute) for the past year and am interested in learning more about turkish music theory, particularly makams. Any suggestions for resources?

kasim

Hello kasim and wellcome.

I found that videos that Xristos Mparbas recomends me very useful, they are in english: 

Cinuçen Tanrıkorur's Lecture-Demonstration on "TAKSIM (Improvisation) in Turkish Music" at The New England Conservatory, Boston, Mass. USA in 1994.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBOizia1tZg&list=PL3O1PK_iLW3shVvi_GOwPwBXdm6yxG9AS

I'm also triying to go more deep in the "maqam world" and all the suggestions for resources are very useful for me also, thank you Apollonia.

All the best,

Joaquín

Offline AlchemyOfMusic

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
turkish makams
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2015, 04:26:34 PM »

Sorry to repeat what others said, but I agree with most people:

* Cinuçen Tanrikorur's videos have some insights for sure.
* I also recommend to look at http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/theory.html
* Karl Signell book is very fine, though I had a hard time understanding a few passages.


I will also try to get Murat Aydemir's book myself since I've read many times that it's a good one.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 08:20:16 PM by AlchemyOfMusic »

Offline a_hennig

  • Favorite Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
  • City: Lansing
  • First Name: Arnold
  • Genre: Other
turkish makams
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2015, 08:15:13 PM »
There's a good book, called Turkish Makam Guide by Murat Aydemir. It is available in English and has recently been translated into Greek. I am unsure whether there is a Turkish original...
Quote
Another book on makamler in general is Makam: Modal Practice In Turkish Art Music by Karl Signell.

The Aydemir book was published for an event, and was made available in several languages. The English language version is no longer available, and I don't see any sign that it might be reprinted.  The Signell book is still available.

Offline SOLO

  • GTC King
  • *
  • Posts: 12,114
turkish makams
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2015, 12:47:34 PM »

Online saleas

  • Administrator
  • GTC King
  • *
  • Posts: 10,800
    • Soap Opera Laundry Cleveland
  • City: Cleveland, Ohio
  • First Name: George
  • Genre: Greek
turkish makams
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2015, 01:04:15 PM »
 :) :TU:
George
www.soapoperalaundrycleveland.com

Nikos Kazantzakis: 

In order to succeed,
you must first believe you can!

Without music, life would Bb

Offline scorpionbob

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 106
  • City: Prag
  • First Name: Bob
turkish makams
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2016, 04:08:10 PM »
Hello,

Nice topic, thank you for everyone

I have one comment in regards to the website maqam world

http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamindex.html

I have checked the website carefully before, it is ok for new starters who would like to take an idea about the oriental scales
however in my humble there a lot of mistakes in how the scales are constructed and the ajnas mentioned there (jins = tetrachord)

for example :

http://www.maqamworld.com/ajnas.html

there they are showing the ajam or acem is trichord, that's a bit odd because acem is a tetrahord

and instance (zamzama tetrachord) they show as main jins or tetrachord and this not correct because in fact zamazma is a variation that could fall either under saba or kurdi ( that's a debate between theoreticians)

the same for athar kurd which is variation falling under the family nawa athar( right to say nev-eser), so again that athar kurd can not be shown as main jins( actually pentachord)

the main sets are 9

Rast - Nihavent - NevEser - Bayati - Kurdi - Hicaz - Saba - Segah - Acem

To Be Continued ...
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 04:33:50 PM by scorpionbob »

Offline scorpionbob

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 106
  • City: Prag
  • First Name: Bob
turkish makams
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2016, 04:23:30 PM »
Back to these theoretical deviations where they come from?

Checking the references of the website as mentioned below :

http://www.maqamworld.com/references.html

I have not checked the first and the second book they refer to, so I would not say anything

The Music of the Arabs
Author: Habib Hassan Touma

Arab Music Theory in the Modern Period
Author: Marcus, Scott Lloyd, Ph.D

( if someone has them, please share it with so  we could take a look on the content )

The third book : Al Mousiqa Al Nadhariyya (La Musique Theorique) - Author: Salim El Helou

I know that book and it is worth readng and the author is quiet respected figure in the arabic music however I personally disagree with so many things that come in the arabic scales chapter because one simple reason

The reason is : the maqams in there were taken from the Cairo Music Summit 1932 which was in that part full of crazy unacceptable stuff by the group of people who put the scales ( actually this is another story tha needs a book to write about )
the author himself ( Salim El Helou ) admitted himself of that and he was only trying to order the scales illustrated previously in notational way so musicians start reading arabic scales on the music staff

I do really appreciate these efforts of Salim El Helou that can not be denied but at the end he tried to fix the disaster created by Cairo Summit with bigger disaster

To Be Continued ...

Offline scorpionbob

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 106
  • City: Prag
  • First Name: Bob
turkish makams
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2016, 04:29:04 PM »
The 4th book

Tahlil Al Angham Fi 3ilm Al Maqam (Melodic Analysis in Maqam Theory)

I would never recommeny anyone to rely on that book because if the contradictions in it

The 5th book as a reference

Nadhariyyat Al Mousiqa Al Sharq Arabiyya (Theory of Eastern Arabic Music)
Authors: Walid Ghulmiyeh, Taoufiq Kerbaj, Antoine Farah

as a reference I have not read however Walid Ghulmiyeh (R.I.P) was a good musician and composer

BR, Bob


Offline SOLO

  • GTC King
  • *
  • Posts: 12,114
turkish makams
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2016, 03:19:02 AM »
great points Bob

Offline scorpionbob

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 106
  • City: Prag
  • First Name: Bob
turkish makams
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2016, 11:15:50 AM »
Thank you Solo

Offline a_hennig

  • Favorite Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
  • City: Lansing
  • First Name: Arnold
  • Genre: Other
turkish makams
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2017, 08:51:15 AM »
The Aydemir book was published for an event, and was made available in several languages. The English language version is no longer available, and I don't see any sign that it might be reprinted.  The Signell book is still available.


I stand corrected by the march of time. The Aydemir book is available in English again!
I found it on Amazon while making another purchase, and it appears that a number of booksellers have it. Wonders never cease!

Offline AlchemyOfMusic

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
turkish makams
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2017, 11:27:34 AM »
I stand corrected by the march of time. The Aydemir book is available in English again!
I found it on Amazon while making another purchase, and it appears that a number of booksellers have it. Wonders never cease!



Thanks for the heads up!

 

FYI

Free clarinet
lessons brought

to you by GTC


Click Here for

Advanced Lessons


PT200 Coming Soon

Website Menu

GTC Theme Song
Help
Our Mission

GTC Photo Album
Old Uploads
GTC on Youtube
What's on eBay
Scales/Dromous
Buyer Beware
Terms of Use
Privacy Notice
Links

+-GTC Stars

Mporlos
Posts: 13271
Bass
Posts: 13095
Kalakos
Posts: 12983
SOLO
Posts: 12114
saleas
Posts: 10800
Global
Posts: 10000
zephyris
Posts: 6368
Merlin
Posts: 5614
SaxofoNikos
Posts: 3782
papa0070
Posts: 2686
kalogeros54
Posts: 2550
xristos
Posts: 2517
spizfromoz
Posts: 1937
PGS
Posts: 1893
danz
Posts: 1592
Christian
Posts: 1586
Isos
Posts: 1268
kokonis
Posts: 1214

+-Letters

To Hellenic Ministry of Culture

+-Stories

Vasili and I

+-Face Book

+-Links

TCM Clarinet Lessons
Stelio Kazantzidis
Mosxos Music
Peter Bexis
Edinburgh University Collection
Hammerschmidt-Klingson
Maqam Lessons
Vassilis Saleas, Elder
NOTIST
Diplaris
Yervand Kalajian
Mike Stoupakis
Dio Dinos Bouzouki
Zephyros
Klarnet Ustasi
Merlin Shepherd
Hammerschmidt
Andy Tsianis (Andreas Chianis)
Bouzouki World
KAMPANA
George Stathos
My Greek Wedding Band
Bouzouki DVD
GTC Online Store
GTC Online Store
T'Adelphia Greek Folk Orchestra
John Pappas
Stavros Pazarentsis
Mike Ouds
Kan Zaman
CLARINET.ORG
The Clarinet Family
NC Clarinet Collectors
Clarinet Pages
ARP Music
Party Pop
BILETIX
Greek Shops
M_POUZOUKI
Exotic Woods
ORSI
Music Meds
K&K Sound
YAMAHA_EUROPE
AMATI
Folk Tours
DUDUK.com
Tulumba
ADaM Productions LTD
CAFETURC
Golden Horn
Traditional Cross Roads
Maqam World
Wood Wind
Tareq Abboushi
Ara Topouzian
Serkan Cagri
Lefteris Bournias
Greek Folk Music and Dance

+-Useful Links

Books on Internet
Albert Finger Chart
Good book for bigginers
Mouthpiece Article
Rhythms
Turkish Websites
Turkish TV & Radio
Tanbur Metodu
Music Material library
Turkish Music Makam Guide
1914 Sherman & Clay Catalogue
Replacing Pads
Thanasis Skordalos-Book
Tartini from Otago NZ
Cinuçen Tanrıkorur's Lecture

Flodida Judaica Sound Archive
Software for Microtones
TCM Clarinet Lessons

 

+-Useful Youtube

Clarinet Repair Tips by Tom
dimvaggelis

Recent Posts

Re: Introducing Albanian music by Eleftarios
Today at 06:01:09 PM

Re: Ramazan Kor Sol Albert-system clarinet: report by Kalakos
Today at 05:53:14 PM

Re: Ramazan Kor Sol Albert-system clarinet: report by Eleftarios
Today at 05:37:24 PM

Re: Ramazan Kor Sol Albert-system clarinet: report by Eleftarios
Today at 05:22:30 PM

Re: Introducing Albanian music by Sunrise
Today at 01:27:22 PM

Re: Introducing Albanian music by Sunrise
Today at 12:05:48 PM

Re: Introducing Albanian music by Sunrise
Today at 12:00:55 PM

Re: Introducing Albanian music by Sunrise
Today at 11:59:15 AM

Re: Ramazan Kor Sol Albert-system clarinet: report by Kalakos
August 21, 2017, 05:47:35 PM

Re: Ramazan Kor Sol Albert-system clarinet: report by Eleftarios
August 21, 2017, 05:21:01 PM

Powered by EzPortal